Re: is eating meat in our nature?

["Alice Evans" <apyyae@nottingham.ac.uk>]

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** For Your Eyes Only **

1. "Altruism lies at the root of all moral behaviour"

just a thought, is behaviour moral because its altruistic or altruistic cos its moral?
are the two mutually entailing? can anyone think of an example of moral behaviour which is not altruistic? i guess this just depends on which theory u buy into. for the utilitarian not all altruistic behaviour is moral, if there are crappy consequences. but i dont think ur first assumption is a very firm foundation. similarly, we might do something for egoistic reasons but it might happen to be great.. 

2. "Human beings and other animals have evolved to be altruistic because 
this furthers the survival of the community or group". 

maybe there is a greater tendency for altruism but clearly not wholly so. analogously, if u buy into the idea that homosexuality is genetic then one would assume, following ur presumption, that we've evolved to be heterosexual. but clearly homosexuals still exist. again, thats only if u buy into the idea homosexuality is genetic. so careful not to put too much weight on this one. i happen to think most people are selfish arseholes focusing on short term gains, that's why we have th problem of global warming etc etc.

maybe we've evolved into being less altruistic going along the lines of the survival of the fittest, with "nature red in tooth and claw". the cut-throat businessman thrives etc etc. there's a funny trashy book actually "the way of the rat: a guide to office politics"

3. "Furthering the survival of the community or group is therefore the aim 
of all moral behaviour"

so the implications here are well its still unclear what we count as moral etc.

and indeed 'what group'?

as an aside, i am saying this from the perspective of a vegetarian, so yeh, its in my interest to agree with u, im just thinking this thru...

cos now it gets really inconsistent as u then use the selfish gene theory, whereas above u favoured the idea that altruism was the self-propagating gene...? surely thats inconsistent? but maybe i misunderstood?

so if we go with the latter idea, that everyone is selfish (in stark contradiction to what was said earlier) then why does this make us part of the same moral community? similarity of genetic makeup entails same moral community? at least thats what u imply. well, whilst i wouldnt disagree with ur final thought that we need to see ourselves as less of masters of this earth and more of subjects/ inhabitants of it i would just like to note one thing.

if u base similarity of genetic makeup as a necessary and sufficient condition for moral community (ie. anyone who is genetically like us has moral standing) what about creatures from other planets? now maybe im being silly, maybe i havent thought this thru... but on ur analysis, if ET turned up, said "hi" etc, but didnt have this selfish gene, didnt have a similar genetic makeup ought we not treat him as a moral patient?

and also whats the slippery slope? where do u draw the line? im not raising this as a point against u, im merely curious as to where u draw it? do we have a moral responsibility to endangered plants? suppose there is a big bear which trashes the trees, does he have a moral responsibility to them? or maybe not as he is incapable of moralising and thus is not a moral agent, capable of responsibility in this sense. suppose the big bear was playing havoc with the endangered trees, would we then have a  moral responsibility to the tree to capture the big bear, let's call him Paddington, and move him away? or is this too much intereference?

and where do u stand on mouse traps? or would u set the cat on them, if u had an invasion of rodents? just out of curiousity?

im unsure on this evolving morality. maybe our conception of morality is evolving. in that we used to do stuff we dont anymore but can morality itself actually be evolving..?

ok, maybe my thoughts weren't very coherent but hey ho.

trash them away.

and keith, welcome to the side of good, may happiness and merriment be upon you...







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