RE: [1] Postgrad. Entry

[Robert Charleston <rc3673@student.open.ac.uk>]

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Re: Postgrad places

We'll be talking about this a bit at the end of the conference next
month. I've chased the more well-known universities as much as anyone
for my postgrad place, but I have to say:

i. My favourite philosophers in print at the moment, and the people I've
met who have inspired me the most so far in my career, did not study at
Oxford or Cambridge.

ii. I have actively been put off by some of the 'Oxford, Cambridge and
London are the only universities that count' attitudes I've found in a
minority of faculty and students I've met from there - if I ended up
with someone with this kind of view (or the don't-turn-up-for-things
attitude Andrew mentioned) I think I'd be pining to be somewhere else
pretty sharpish, despite the reputation of the institution. It's
important that you like the people you're with and don't find them
obnoxious...

iii. There are plenty of Oxbridge-qualified tutors out there doing less
well in their careers, or writing less rigorous work, than I want to
when I've worked my way up the ladder.

iv. I know people who have left Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, and St. Andrews
*after* winning a place for postgrad - all citing the same reason: to
work with a particular supervisor who was elsewhere.

v. From what I can gather, for PhD places, your written work, references
and research proposal form the bulk of what your application is judged
on, not which university is listed for earlier degrees

vi. Funding, funding, funding... Just as important to getting through
your career, but judged on very different criteria to which department
you're at (having an Oxbridge place does not bring you funding in
itself, and most funded philosophers are not Oxbridge...)

vii. When you come to take your first job interviews, I've been told
it's your presentation on the day, your references, experience,
publications and which modules you are qualified to teach that make the
biggest differences - university attended is waaay down the list.

So, obviously I would be lying if I didn't say that getting to my chosen
university is important to me; and that getting a PhD from an impressive
'top name' university is absolutely my aim now. But it's not the be-all
and end-all to impress these people and I certainly wouldn't personally
ever assume that Oxford, Cambridge, London etc. philosophers are
*better* (we've seen more top-notch papers from Durham, Sheffield, York
and Lancaster than Oxford over the last 18 months, for instance). Even
though I would like to be one of these Oxbridge types in time, and will
be upset if I fail in that avowed aim, some of the best philosophy in
the country, and some of the best philosophers and supervisors I've met
or heard of, are in distinctly lower-ranked-by-somewhat-arbitrary-guides
departments. These guides use various statistical methods that are all
*substitutes* for actually knowing the situation 'on the ground'.
Acknowledge them, but ask around and do some digging for yourself, by
your own priorities.

My advice: Go for the 'higher-ranked' universities if you think you'd be
happy and work well there. If not, having visited them and done some
reading, then don't commit the (considerable) time and effort their
application procedures require. Go somewhere you *do* like and feel at
home in. If you do go for the Oxford/Cambridge/London/etc. places,
hopefully you'll get a place. But if you do get the place, and turn up,
and find that you're unhappy there, don't be afraid of going elsewhere;
and don't be *too* down if applying doesn't work out: a) as I wrote in
the BJUP a few months ago, the application procedures are extremely
dodgy, and will miss a lot of talent; and b) your career will be in no
way hampered by being elsewhere, in the long run. Just find where *you*
can work well and receive the support *you* need, to turn out the work
*you* will be proud of.

Ooh. That ended up longer than I was intending - please excuse me; but
it's something I care about quite a lot. Philosophy is great, studying
is great. I'd swap a top, interested, helpful, committed tutor for a
'big name' university place any day of the week, because the tutor will
help me be all I can be, philosophically; whereas the name will just
look good somewhere in the middle of my CV...

Just my 2p's worth!

Rab
---
Chair, BUPS



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